Classic Track & Road-Track Frames (pre-1970)

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PLEASE NOTE: I measure all British, American and Japanese frames in inches ctt (centre to top) and convert to the nearest cm, conversely I measure all European and Italian frames in centimetres ctc (centre to centre) and convert to the nearest 0.25in.
A problem with all frames measured ctt is that the top measuring point varies from maker to maker and I try and second guess where the maker intended his measurement to be to – some mean top of top top tube, others the very top of the seat lug, and others to the seat lug top line…

FRAME SIZING
Do not assume that you will need a frame sized the same as your modern one – either seat tube or top tube. Fashion plays a great part in frame design and sizing. In the early years of the 20th century frames were sized as large as possible with virtually no seatpost showing … by contrast riders were advised in the 1920s to have as small a frame as possible.
Race/road frames from the 1920s/early 1930s will generally be sized about 3–5cm smaller than a modern frame but with a much longer top tube and shorter stems. Towards the end of the 1930s larger frame sizes became fashionable – up to 2cm larger than a modern frame. Top tube lengths were still longer used with shorter stems. In the 1940s and 50s frames were sized a bit larger still – 3–4cm more than a modern frame still with longer top tubes and shorter stems. In the 1960s and 1970s frames gradually reduced in size until the late 1980s. At the same time top tubes began to get shorter and stems longer.

Standover height is NOT a useful method of frame sizing either with modern or old frames. Short legged riders will rarely have much or any clearance between the top tube and their crotch unless the frame has a sloping top tube design. Taller riders also face other problems. A complete guide to frame sizing for frames of different periods is impossible to detail here. For frames from the 1980s onwards I suggest buyers look at Dave Moulton’s contributions on frame sizing. Possibly start off with http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2006/2/27/a-different-thought-on-frame-sizing.html
and then look at: http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/MoultonFrameSizeChart

I am willing to advise any customer on frame sizing with older frames.

Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970 (look below)
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames
Touring frames
Track frames

Please contact me at: hilarystone@hilarystone.com to check on availability and confirm shipping cost.

HETCHINS BRILLIANT ROAD-TRACK 1963 22.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 22.5in (57cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 63mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Lots od useful information on Hetchins can be found at: http://www.hetchins.orgThis Hetchins Brilliant Road-Track was built in 1963. It’s in very good to excellent condition with only a few small marks to the paint. A reproduction Hetchins headbadge is included with the frame… £575

 

CLAUD BUTLER OLYMPIC SPRINT ROAD/TRACK FRAME 1953 22.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 22.5in (57cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23in (58cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 52mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Claud Butler built several versions of bilaminated track frames and they were always either the top or next to top frame in the range. This frame dating from 1953 and features the long spearpoint bilaminations which are so attractive. Although bilaminated frames look as if they are built with lugs they are in fact fillet brazed. The ‘lug parts’ are sleeves which feature cut outs just like the ends of lugs. These are first brazed onto the end of each tube to be joined. The tubes complete with sleeves are then fillet brazed together. Claud Butler claimed that in tests at the National Physical Laboratory this type of joint proved to be 25% stronger than a conventional lugged joint. Lots more can be found on Claud Butler at http://www.nkilgariff.com and at http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/cb-bilam-vincent.html
This frame whilst looking rough is very sound – it will restore beautifully. I’ve had it for thirty years and it rides very nicely. £225

 

CLAUD BUTLER ROAD TRACK ALLROUNDER BILAMINATIONS 1955 23.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm), 22.5 (57cm) ctc
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 62mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Claud Butler built several versions of bilaminated track frames and they were always either the top or next to top frame in the range. This frame dating from 1955 and features the hammerhead bilaminations. Although bilaminated frames look as if they are built with lugs they are in fact fillet brazed. The ‘lug parts’ are sleeves which feature cut outs just like the ends of lugs. These are first brazed onto the end of each tube to be joined. The tubes complete with sleeves are then fillet brazed together. Claud Butler claimed that in tests at the National Physical Laboratory this type of joint proved to be 25% stronger than a conventional lugged joint. Lots more can be found on Claud Butler at http://www.nkilgariff.com and at http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/cb-bilam-vincent.html
This frame is a Track Allrounder from 1955 and has been nicely repainted quite a time ago but used since… The paint has some marks but is very useable. The frame itself is excellent. £295

 

MEREDITH BASTIDE TRACK c1920 21in
Seat Tube (ctt): 21in (53cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23in (58cm)
Rear dropout width: 115mm
Sprints/700C
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds A
Bastide was a French framebuilder who basically changed the design of frames forever when he introduced his frames around 1910–12.. Not only did it influence the style and construction of the racing bike but roadsters also changed too in design as a result of the widespread changes first shown on the Bastide. The Bastide frame was built from top quality English Reynolds tubing with lugs and fittings provided by BSA. Bastide was based at 56 Boulevard de Clichy, Paris and turned these fittings into a totally superb racer. Wheels were smaller (26in rather than 28in), the bottom bracket was just 25cm from the ground instead of 30cm giving the machine a sleek and low appearance. The top tube was parallel to the ground – most racers at this period had top tubes sloping down to the head and most importantly the rear seatstays and chainstays were brazed into position instead of bolted as was common practice then. Both the seat and chainstays were tapered round tubes with an indented right hand chainstay to allow for chainwheel clearance. And the frame was much smaller – it was ridden with three inches of seat pillar showing rather than with the saddle stuffed right down onto the top tube. After WWI a number of new English framebuilders – Granby, Macleans, Saxon, Grubb and later Selbach and F W Evans quickly latched onto the new look racer. It was not long before some of the more forward thinking bigger manufacturers latched onto the new design – New Hudson and James were probably the first in 1922. Most makers in France and Italy were independently building to a similar design but in some countries such as Holland and Germany bicycle design did not change from the old style for another 30 years and much later still in the Far East. So Bastide can truly credited with instigating a major frame design change… Leon Meredith one of Britain’s greatest track riders and owner of the Constrictor Tyre Company was responsible for importing the first Bastides and displaying them at the 1912 Olympia Cycle show where they were the sensation of the show. Costing 13 guineas they were nearly as expensive as the top of the range Dursley-Pedersens, Sunbeams and Lea-Francis yet unlike those bikes which were loaded with gears, brakes, headlocks, sprung saddles, racks, toolkit etc were fitted with a single brake and gear and no trimmings. He continued to import them after WWI when he named them Meredith – this frame has the early type BB shell with linered chainstays and squared off seatstay top eyes… This dates it to 1919–22 I think… It was originally built as a track frame but has had many braze-on fittings added and the forks are a replacement… Hence £375

 

VIC BRAYSHER ROAD/TRACK FRAME 1960 20.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 20.5in (52cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.25in (56.5cm)
Rear dropout width: 130mm
Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 60mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Vic Braysher had a shop near Walthamstow town hall in East London from I think the late 40s through to the mid 1980s… He built frames for Condor between 1952 and 1955.
This road track frame dates from 1960 and is built with Nervex Pro lugs and has a hand cut fork crown… Its really very beautifully built… The paint is excellent with only a few small marks. £245

 

EXCEL DAN GENNER TRACK FRAME 1920s 20in
Seat Tube (ctt): 20in (51cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 55mm
Seatpost size: 26.6mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds A
Excel from Colliers Wood in south London were one of the earlier framebuilders to build frames in the lightweight style that we are now so accustomed to and were in business by the early 1920s. There is more information at: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/excel2collierswood.html though some of the dating is incorrect – the shop was still in business to the late 1980s…
This track frame dates from the 1920s I think so is one of their earlier frames – it has some surface rust but is basically very sound… A rare frame…£225

 

ANDRE LEDUCQ TRACK FRAME c1953 53cm built by Mercier
Seat Tube (ctc): 53cm (21in)
Top Tube (ctc): 56cm (22in)
Rear dropout width: 115mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C
Frame tubing: Not known
Seatpost size: 26.6mm
André Leducq was a very accomplished French professional rider who won the Tour de France twice and rode for Mercier from 1934–39. In the late 1930s Mercier introduced a range of high-end bicycles bearing his name. They continued after WWII into the early 1950s. This track frame is gorgeously built – I suspect it may have been built for one of their top riders its of a quality rarely seen on French frames except for those built by the Constructeur builders – Herse, Singer, etc The lug shorelines are stuningly precise and the brazing perfectly clean. The paint is not in very good condition but I think it should definitely not be repainted. The frame is in excellent condition and built from a light double butted metric sized tube set, quite possibly Reynolds 531. £450

 

E G BATES ROAD TRACK FRAME 23.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23in (58cm)
Rear dropout width: 115mm
Wheel size: 27in or Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 63mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Horace Bates founded Bates Cycles in August 1926 at 2a Swete Street, London E13 after he had been sacked from Hawkes Cycles for refusing to work late one night. E G Bates joined his brother in the business in 1927 and the business then became known as Bates Brothers. Soon after they moved to larger premises at 632 Barking Road which was about opposite the later EG Bates shop at 589–591 Barking Road. Soon after WWII in 1947 the two brothers decided to split the business in two. Horace took the branches and retained the Cantiflex design whilst E.G. kept the head office and original shop at Barking Road. Horace's firm now became known as Bates of London. More can be found on Bates at: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/bates.html
This road-track frame from I think the later 1950s or early 1960s has been well repainted albeit with down-tube and seat tube decals from Horace Bates. Its in excellent condition. £225

 

CLAUD BUTLER OLYMPIC ROAD/TRACK FRAME c1962 22in
Seat Tube (ctt): 22in (56cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 114mm
Wheel size: 27in or Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 60mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531
Seatpost size: 26.4mm
This Claud Butler Olympic Road/track frame was built at the Holdsworthy factory from Reynolds 531 tubing. Lots more can be found on Claud Butler at http://www.nkilgariff.com It dates I think from 1962. Its in very good useable condition. £195

 

DOSSCHE SPORT TRACK FRAME 54cm 1950s
Seat Tube (ctc): 54cm (21.25in)
Top Tube (ctc): 56cm (22in)
Rear dropout width: 115mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 42mm
Frame tubing: Not known
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Dossche Sport are – were a very well respected Belgian framebuilder… This track frame with Nervex Pro lugs and Bastide type fork crown is exquisitely built. – just take a look at the very clean brazing and filework. This frame is in really nice condition – there’s one tiny ding to the top tube but its very hard to see…It has the steep angles and tight clearances found on most Belgian track frames – their tracks are normally short and steeply banked… £295

 

** SPECIAL REDUCED PRICE**
POGLIAGHI TRACK FRAME c1963 59cm

Seat Tube (ctc): 59cm (23.5in)
Top Tube (ctc): 57cm (22.5in)
Rear dropout width: 120mm
Wheel size: 700C/sprints
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Columbus double butted
Sante Pogliaghi was one of Italy’s most revered framebuilders through the 1960s and 70s ranking alongside Cinelli, Masi and De Rosa. This track frame dates from c1963 and has been very nicely restored. The frame exudes pure quality… Very, very rare. £925

 

GILLOTT FLEUR DE LIS TRACK FRAME 1954 23in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Wheel size:  700C/sprints with a brake drop of 46mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Gillott frames are renowned for being built to consistently high standards – this was down to employing excellent framebuilders and Harry Carrington who was stickler for quality. More on Gillott can be found at: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/gillott.html
The Fleur de Lis was Gillott’s top model and is very beautiful. Though this frame has mudguard eyes it has very close clearances and quite steep frame angles so I think was built with track use mostly in mind. It has been beautifully restored at Argos Cycles in Bristol and not used much since. It has a few small marks and is ready to be built up. £695

 

** SPECIAL REDUCED PRICE**
GERMAN TRACK FRAME Possibly Rickert 52cm 1960s

Seat Tube (ctc): 52cm (20.5in)
Top Tube (ctc): 54cm (21.25in)
Rear dropout width: 116mm
Wheel size:  700C/sprints
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Rickert was one of the top German framebuilders. The German Rickert expert thought that this track frame was very likely to be a Rickert. This frame exudes quality just like most Rickert frames. The paint and chrome are in excellent condition. It has typical steep track frame angles and close clearances and is not drilled for brakes. £245


** SPECIAL REDUCED PRICE**
POLLARD TRACK FRAME 1950s 22in

Seat Tube (ctt): 22in (56cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 115mm
Wheel size:  700C/sprints with a brake drop of 52mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Pollard was an old established Coventry framebuilder and shop that was open still in the late 1980s. This pure track frame which I think dates from the 1960s has close clearances, steep head angle and small fork offset and is really nicely built probably originally for use at Coventry Butts track. The paint is original but really rather so-so – most buyers will I think want to get it repainted. £195


R O HARRISON MADISON ROAD-TRACK FRAME 1951 23in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23in (58cm)
Rear dropout width: 113mm
Wheel size:  700C/sprints with a brake drop of 57mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
R O Harrison was a south London framebuilder who was one of Maurice Selbach’s framebuilders before he set up on his own around 1933. He had an excellent reputation. More details can be found at http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/harrison.html R O Harrison frames are very consistent in quality and this one is no exception. It has been very attractively refinished in silver with red lug lining. This frame is exquisitely built with wonderful lugs with clean edges and immaculate brazing. It has one or two small marks but is ready to be built up… £445

 

** SPECIAL REDUCED PRICE**
CARLTON COUREUR ROAD-TRACK 23in c1955 Fancy lugs

Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 110mm
Wheel size: 700C/sprints with a brake drop of 62mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
This is a very unusual model of Carlton track frame – its in the 1955 catalogue. The Coureur model was mostly marketed as a road frame but they listed a road-track version which is what this is. The fancy lug design was unique to the Coureur model. The frame appears to be in very sound condition but had been given a very rough coat of paint… £195


Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970(look above)
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames
Touring frames
Track frames

 

 


SHIPPING COSTS

UK: £18
Europe: £35
North America: £90
Japan, Asia, Australasia, Africa, Middle East, South America: £115

Figures above are good estimates, rates may vary for some countries.
Contact us for more info.


CLICK ON the sale images to see a much larger picture!

FRAME CONDITION
Frames are supplied as seen in the pictures unless described otherwise in the text.
Please remember that these frames are generally at least twenty years old and sometimes seventy… In most cases I will know very little of their history but will attempt to describe any problems I can spot – if there are issues I have missed I will always work with the buyer to find a solution.
All frames I sell are in track and straight, with excellent headset threads, bottom bracket shell threads and gear hanger threads if fitted.
I will make every attempt to ascertain whether paint is original, an older repaint or a more recent repaint. Paint quality does vary quite bit…

These categories may be qualified by more detailed description in the text.

Excellent A very useable frame with no obtrusive marks to the paint and no dings or dents. Chrome if present will be free of serious marks unless stated otherwise.

Very Good Perfectly useable frame but with more marks to the paint and chrome if present. Some of the marks may benefit from careful retouching. Generally there will no dents or dings but if present will be small. However if you are concerned about dents/dings with frames in this category please ask me to do an extra check.

Sound Paint and chrome may need redoing depending on how you like your bikes – I appreciate frames with patina which show their age but others may want to repaint. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. Any more significant dents will be described in the text.

Needing repainting Paint will be poor and in my opinion is not saveable. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. If there are larger dents they will be described and/or pictured. These are all easily filled by a good framebuilder or frame painter at very little extra cost.

Headsets or bottom brackets fitted to frames are of unknown and unguaranteed condition unless specifically described in the text. Sometimes headsets or bottom brackets will not feel smooth and simply need a service and on other occasions the headset or bottom bracket will need replacing…
For frame without headsets or where you'd like a headset replaced I can offer a fitting service for £15. Please see the headset pages: http://hilarystone.com/headset.html for what is available but please bear in mind that you may need advice on whether a particular headset will fit your frame especially in relation to stack height.

 
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