English, American & Far Eastern Bike Frames
Post-1970 Larger than 22.5in

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PLEASE NOTE: I measure all British, American and Japanese frames in inches ctt (centre to top) and convert to the nearest cm, conversely I measure all European and Italian frames in centimetres ctc (centre to centre) and convert to the nearest 0.25in.
A problem with all frames measured ctt is that the top measuring point varies from maker to maker and I try and second guess where the maker intended his measurement to be to – some mean top of top top tube, others the very top of the seat lug, and others to the seat lug top line…

FRAME SIZING
Do not assume that you will need a frame sized the same as your modern one – either seat tube or top tube. Fashion plays a great part in frame design and sizing. In the early years of the 20th century frames were sized as large as possible with virtually no seatpost showing … by contrast riders were advised in the 1920s to have as small a frame as possible.
Race/road frames from the 1920s/early 1930s will generally be sized about 3–5cm smaller than a modern frame but with a much longer top tube and shorter stems. Towards the end of the 1930s larger frame sizes became fashionable – up to 2cm larger than a modern frame. Top tube lengths were still longer used with shorter stems. In the 1940s and 50s frames were sized a bit larger still – 3–4cm more than a modern frame still with longer top tubes and shorter stems. In the 1960s and 1970s frames gradually reduced in size until the late 1980s. At the same time top tubes began to get shorter and stems longer.

Standover height is NOT a useful method of frame sizing either with modern or old frames. Short legged riders will rarely have much or any clearance between the top tube and their crotch unless the frame has a sloping top tube design. Taller riders also face other problems. A complete guide to frame sizing for frames of different periods is impossible to detail here. For frames from the 1980s onwards I suggest buyers look at Dave Moulton’s contributions on frame sizing. Possibly start off with http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2006/2/27/a-different-thought-on-frame-sizing.html
and then look at: http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/MoultonFrameSizeChart

I am willing to advise any customer on frame sizing with older frames.

Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in (look below)
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames

Touring frames
Track frames


Please contact me at: hilarystone@hilarystone.com to check on availability and confirm shipping cost.

CONDOR TOURER 23.5in 1970s Vic Edwards built
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: 700C
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Condor Cycles was founded in the late 1940s by Monty Young and has garnered a well deserved reputation for the bikes and frames they sell. Their frames have been built by a number of framebuilders over years – Bill Hurlow, Tom Board, Dave Yates and Vic Edwards to name just some. This frame was built by Vic Edwards in the early 1970s I think. Vic Edwards was one of those framebuilders that built mostly for shops – it is believed he first started off working in the Hobbs of Barbican frame workshop. Later he set up on his own building for Rory O’Briens, Condors and many others. It has been repainted by Major Nicols and at the same time had a few small modernisations, in particular cantilever brake bosses for 700C wheels. The head tube and seat tube decals are Major Nicols renovated ones but I think these could be removed and Condor ones fitted in place. £285

 

REG BRADDICK ROAD FRAME 25in c1977
Seat Tube (ctt): 25in (63.5cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23.5in (59cm)
Rear dropout width: 122mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 55mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Reg Braddick had a cycle shop in Cardiff. I don’t know the origins of his frames – this one is nicely built and I think dates from the early 70s… It does definitely need painting but is perfectly sound. £95

 

WITCOMB ROAD FRAME 23.5in 1977
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 124mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 54mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 26.4mm
This frame has a Witcomb Cycles frame number from 1977 and carries a Witcomb Cycles supplied decal. Its built from Reynolds 531 metric sized tubing, but has an English threaded BB and headset. The seatstay top eyes are very characteristic of Bernard Carré frames – Bernard Carré was a top French framebuilder. Witcomb Cycles certainly sourced frames from other builders despite building themselves… It has Huret rear dropouts. The paint is so-so but I think is original. £145

 

EMPEROR SPORT TOURER 23.5in 1970s
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 124mm
Wheel size: 27s or 700C with cantilever brakes
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Emperor Sport Cycles was a well known bike shop on the edge of Sutton run by Mick Coward and Tony Mills. Apparently Mick built some of the frames but not this one I think…
This touring dates I think to the late 1970s – it has braze-ons for cantilever brakes which are suitable for 700C or 27in wheels – the pivots are a little higher than normal for 700c wheels but a bit lower than normal for 27in wheels so most types of cantilver brake will work with either wheel size I think. The paint is in very good condition with some marks. £225

 

ANDY THOMPSON TIME TRIAL FRAME 24.5in c1980
Seat Tube (ctt): 22.5in (57cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 44mm
Frame tubing: ??????
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Andy Thompson set up up Thompson frames in the late 1970s near Huddersfield in West Yorkshire. He later went on to work at Orbit and in collaboration with Isla Rowntree. He was responsible for some quite state-of-the-art frames in the late 1970s early 1980s – he used a variety of tubing including Ishiwata so I don’t know what tubing was used for this frame though I don’t think the steerer is Ishiwata as it does not have internal reinforcements typical of Ishiwata steerers; it is however butted. This TT frame is really nicely built. The paint is in very good condition though there are a number of marks which could be carefully retouched… £245

 

DENTON ROAD FRAME 1979 Mercian built
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with front brake drop of 52mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Denton road frames (Dentons shop was in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne) were built for quite a time by Mercian and this is clearly one of the Mercian built frames. This frame has at some time been repainted and is in very good condition. £155


Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in (look above)
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames

Touring frames
Track frames





SHIPPING COSTS

UK: £18
Europe: £35
North America: £90
Japan, Asia, Australasia, Africa, Middle East, South America: £115

Figures above are good estimates, rates may vary for some countries.
Contact us for more info.


CLICK ON the sale images to see a much larger picture!

FRAME CONDITION
Frames are supplied as seen in the pictures unless described otherwise in the text.
Please remember that these frames are generally at least twenty years old and sometimes seventy… In most cases I will know very little of their history but will attempt to describe any problems I can spot – if there are issues I have missed I will always work with the buyer to find a solution.
All frames I sell are in track and straight, with excellent headset threads, bottom bracket shell threads and gear hanger threads if fitted.
I will make every attempt to ascertain whether paint is original, an older repaint or a more recent repaint. Paint quality does vary quite bit…

These categories may be qualified by more detailed description in the text.

Excellent A very useable frame with no obtrusive marks to the paint and no dings or dents. Chrome if present will be free of serious marks unless stated otherwise.

Very Good Perfectly useable frame but with more marks to the paint and chrome if present. Some of the marks may benefit from careful retouching. Generally there will no dents or dings but if present will be small. However if you are concerned about dents/dings with frames in this category please ask me to do an extra check.

Sound Paint and chrome may need redoing depending on how you like your bikes – I appreciate frames with patina which show their age but others may want to repaint. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. Any more significant dents will be described in the text.

Needing repainting Paint will be poor and in my opinion is not saveable. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. If there are larger dents they will be described and/or pictured. These are all easily filled by a good framebuilder or frame painter at very little extra cost.

Headsets or bottom brackets fitted to frames are of unknown and unguaranteed condition unless specifically described in the text. Sometimes headsets or bottom brackets will not feel smooth and simply need a service and on other occasions the headset or bottom bracket will need replacing…
For frame without headsets or where you'd like a headset replaced I can offer a fitting service for £15. Please see the headset pages: http://hilarystone.com/headset.html for what is available but please bear in mind that you may need advice on whether a particular headset will fit your frame especially in relation to stack height.

 
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