English, American & Far Eastern Bike Frames
Post-1970 Larger than 22.5in

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PLEASE NOTE: I measure all British, American and Japanese frames in inches ctt (centre to top) and convert to the nearest cm, conversely I measure all European and Italian frames in centimetres ctc (centre to centre) and convert to the nearest 0.25in.
A problem with all frames measured ctt is that the top measuring point varies from maker to maker and I try and second guess where the maker intended his measurement to be to – some mean top of top top tube, others the very top of the seat lug, and others to the seat lug top line…

FRAME SIZING
Do not assume that you will need a frame sized the same as your modern one – either seat tube or top tube. Fashion plays a great part in frame design and sizing. In the early years of the 20th century frames were sized as large as possible with virtually no seatpost showing … by contrast riders were advised in the 1920s to have as small a frame as possible.
Race/road frames from the 1920s/early 1930s will generally be sized about 3–5cm smaller than a modern frame but with a much longer top tube and shorter stems. Towards the end of the 1930s larger frame sizes became fashionable – up to 2cm larger than a modern frame. Top tube lengths were still longer used with shorter stems. In the 1940s and 50s frames were sized a bit larger still – 3–4cm more than a modern frame still with longer top tubes and shorter stems. In the 1960s and 1970s frames gradually reduced in size until the late 1980s. At the same time top tubes began to get shorter and stems longer.

Standover height is NOT a useful method of frame sizing either with modern or old frames. Short legged riders will rarely have much or any clearance between the top tube and their crotch unless the frame has a sloping top tube design. Taller riders also face other problems. A complete guide to frame sizing for frames of different periods is impossible to detail here. For frames from the 1980s onwards I suggest buyers look at Dave Moulton’s contributions on frame sizing. Possibly start off with http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2006/2/27/a-different-thought-on-frame-sizing.html
and then look at: http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/MoultonFrameSizeChart

I am willing to advise any customer on frame sizing with older frames.

Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in (look below)
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames

Touring frames
Track frames


Please contact me at: hilarystone@hilarystone.com to check on availability and confirm shipping cost.

RALEIGH CYCLO-CROSS FRAME 1995
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm), 21in (53cm) ctc
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 130mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C
Frame tubing: Reynolds 853
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
In 1987 Raleigh SBDU moved to Nottingham to join the former Carlton Lightweight bike unit which had moved to Nottingham six years earlier. The two units were merged over the next year or so to form Raleigh Special Products Division. This frame is from 1995 and is built from Reynolds 853 tubing. It was featured in a Cycling Plus test and then ridden for a couple of seasons completing the Three Peaks twice. Its in very sound condition but the paint is quite marked. £265

 


ARGOS ROAD FRAME 1995 23in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 130mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 48mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531C
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Argos Cycles was started in 1974 by Arthur Needham as an adjunct to his engineering business. Frames are now built by Gary Needham, Arthur’s son. They are have enviable reputation for the care and precision with which they build their frames.
This frame built from Reynolds 531C tubing is in excellent original condition. £245

 



SHORTER ROAD FRAME 1970s 23in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.25in (56.5cm)
Rear dropout width: 126mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 53mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Shorter road frames were built by a number of different framebuilders including Vic Edwards, Barry Chick, Wally Green and others but in this case I would not know who was responsible. I suspect that it was originally built for road racing and has since been converted for sportive/randonneurs. It has threaded inserts under the brake bridge and fork crown for mounting guards and stops/ guides for handlebar end controls… The paint is in excellent condition. £225

 

SPECIALIZED S WORKS M2 ROAD FRAME 1994 23.25in Aluminium metal matrix tubing
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.25in (58.5cm), 22in (56cm) ctc
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 130mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 47mm
Frame tubing: Aluminium metal matrix tubing
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
This was Specialized’s top road frame for 1994 built from aluminium metal matrix tubing. Aluminium metal matrix tubing was quite a bit stiffer than any of the normal alloys of aluminium and also had better fatigue properties – it was only used by a few builders – Raleigh being one of the others… This very rare frame is in excellent condition with a few marks to the paint which when built up will not be noticeable… £425

 

COUGAR ROAD FRAME c1992 25.5in centre to top Reynolds 753
Seat Tube (ctt): 25.5in (65cm), 23in (58cm) ctc
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 130mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 47mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 753
Cougar was (and still is) a brand name used by Terry Dolan and this frame from about 1992 would have been built by one of his top builders. This frame built from Reynolds 753 tubing is in excellent condition with a few small marks to the paint – the down tube decal is damaged. £275

 


SHORTER ROAD FRAME ex Tony Doyle c1983 23in built by Barry Chick
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 23in (58cm)
Rear dropout width: 126mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame tubing: ????
Shorters were based at North Finchley, North London. The frames were built by a number of different builders including Harold Peters, Vic Edwards and Barry Chick. A little more on Shorters can be found at: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/shorter-builders.html This frame built for the great British pro rider Tony Doyle was I’m sure built by Barry Chick. Its in excellent condition and comes with the original Shimano Dura-Ace AX gears and brake callipers. £495

 

TOOKE ROAD FRAME 1970s 23in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23in (58cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22in (56cm)
Rear dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: 27s or 700C or sprints with brake drop of 49mm
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Frame Tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
I acquired this from the estate of a good friend after he had died many years ago. He had an impeccable taste in bikes but this was always a mystery. Its very nicely built – the lugs drilled with a single hole and are beautifully filed, the mitreing is near perfect and brazing is very clean. It is engraved (not stamped) with ????? 978 on the bottom bracket. I suspect it was built by a someone with engineering experience as a one-off… Judging the fittings, details etc I’d guess it was from the 1970s possibly 1978… Without doubt it will be worth giving it a full restoration. £175

 

HOLDSWORTH PRO ROAD FRAME 1981 23.5in
Seat Tube (ctt): 23.5in (59cm)
Top Tube (ctc): 22.5in (57cm)
Rear dropout width: 126mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 48mm
Frame tubing: Reynolds 531 double butted
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
In the early 70s one of the most distinctive sights in British professional racing was that of the orange and Kingfisher blue bikes of the Holdsworth-Campagnolo team, they reigned supreme in England. The Holdsworthy Company in early 1970 launched the Professional frame model. This stayed in the catalogues with a few changes until 1985 though the orange and Kingfisher blue colours ceased to be standard.
This frame dates from 1981 is in excellent condition ready to be built up – it will make a very straightforward build and comes complete with its original Allez branded headset. £425

 

** SALE PRICE**
ANDY THOMPSON TIME TRIAL FRAME 24.5in c1980
Seat Tube (ctt): 24.5in (57cm), 23.25in (59cm) ctc
Top Tube (ctc): 22.25in (56.5cm)
Rear dropout width: 125mm
Wheel size: Sprints/700C with a brake drop of 45mm
Frame tubing: ??????
Seatpost size: 27.2mm
Andy Thompson set up up Thompson frames in the late 1970s near Huddersfield in West Yorkshire. He later went on to work at Orbit and in collaboration with Isla Rowntree. He was responsible for some quite state-of-the-art frames in the late 1970s early 1980s – he used a variety of tubing including Ishiwata so I don’t know what tubing was used for this frame though I don’t think the steerer is Ishiwata as it does not have internal reinforcements typical of Ishiwata steerers; it is however butted. This TT frame is really nicely built. The paint is in very good condition though there are a number of marks which could be carefully retouched… £195


Featured Frames
British and American road frames smaller than 21.5in
British and American road frames 21.5in–22.5in
British and American road frames larger than 22.5in (look above)
Bargain Basement
Classic Road frames pre-1970 smaller than 21.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 21.5in–22.5in
Classic Road frames pre-1970 larger than 22.5in
Classic Track & Road-Track frames pre-1970
European frames 56cm or smaller
European frames larger than 56cm
Italian frames 56cm or smaller
Italian frames larger than 56cm
Lo-Pro &
Retro Time Trial frames

Touring frames
Track frames





SHIPPING COSTS

UK: £18
Europe: £35
North America: £90
Japan, Asia, Australasia, Africa, Middle East, South America: £115

Figures above are good estimates, rates may vary for some countries.
Contact us for more info.


CLICK ON the sale images to see a much larger picture!

FRAME CONDITION
Frames are supplied as seen in the pictures unless described otherwise in the text.
Please remember that these frames are generally at least twenty years old and sometimes seventy… In most cases I will know very little of their history but will attempt to describe any problems I can spot – if there are issues I have missed I will always work with the buyer to find a solution.
All frames I sell are in track and straight, with excellent headset threads, bottom bracket shell threads and gear hanger threads if fitted.
I will make every attempt to ascertain whether paint is original, an older repaint or a more recent repaint. Paint quality does vary quite bit…

These categories may be qualified by more detailed description in the text.

Excellent A very useable frame with no obtrusive marks to the paint and no dings or dents. Chrome if present will be free of serious marks unless stated otherwise.

Very Good Perfectly useable frame but with more marks to the paint and chrome if present. Some of the marks may benefit from careful retouching. Generally there will no dents or dings but if present will be small. However if you are concerned about dents/dings with frames in this category please ask me to do an extra check.

Sound Paint and chrome may need redoing depending on how you like your bikes – I appreciate frames with patina which show their age but others may want to repaint. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. Any more significant dents will be described in the text.

Needing repainting Paint will be poor and in my opinion is not saveable. There may be a small ding or two but nothing very significant – older frames often pick up smaller dents which are of no significance to their strength or life. If there are larger dents they will be described and/or pictured. These are all easily filled by a good framebuilder or frame painter at very little extra cost.

Headsets or bottom brackets fitted to frames are of unknown and unguaranteed condition unless specifically described in the text. Sometimes headsets or bottom brackets will not feel smooth and simply need a service and on other occasions the headset or bottom bracket will need replacing…
For frame without headsets or where you'd like a headset replaced I can offer a fitting service for £15. Please see the headset pages: http://hilarystone.com/headset.html for what is available but please bear in mind that you may need advice on whether a particular headset will fit your frame especially in relation to stack height.

 
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